They can then use these unseen components throughout their different product lines and improve their profit margins through the lower shared development costs. Tenth 0.64 The 6L80 in its transaxle version for the Corvette. and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. The Great Chevy Auto Trans Interchange Guide - Street Muscle I'd be modding it to a FBO car with cam and converter eventually. The transmission will bolt up but will not work since the TCM, Tehcm and BCM are application specific and cannot interchanged. Gears Magazine It is a heavy duty version of the 6L80 six speed automatic with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total and a strengthened output gearset that uses wider gears than the 6L80. SEE, I think it's a 15 pin plug and two wires change on the plug fro 95 to. This drives up the price of the rebuilt converter, but ensures that this kind of failure wont happen again. Customers' pictures and movies from drag racing competitions. I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. Note, some customers may complain of a converter type whine noise coming from the transmission. While its true that, many times, the root cause of a converter failure lies in the transmission, in this case, there is ample evidence that the opposite is true: an inherent torque converter problem might be the root cause of a lot of the transmission failures. Thank you. I would be willing to get it rebuilt, but want it to function like it should (not back to the way it came from GM). I would like to keep the turbo small so it would spool extremely quickly and the compression high to be responsive. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. Related Articles ATI introduces new e-clutch hub for ZF8HP51 Sonnax adds new stator support bushing for Ford 6F35 Alto adds to intermediate clutch PowerPack line for GM transmissions According to Sonnax, the heavy OE LFS, GFX announced a new pump component for GM Powerglide models, covering several vintage model years: 1950 through 1973. So is the 10L90 entirely different or does it just have stronger parts? Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. full. ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. GM LS1 - 9 and Chrysler/Mopar Gen III & Viper V10, Chevrolet Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Chrysler Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Ford Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Torque Converters with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4L65E Stage II - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E Frn Std till 1000Hp version, 6L80E / 6L90E From Stock to 1000Hp version. or Best Offer . But once he had the parts and the job was complete, the noise issue was resolved, confirming the cause to be the idler gear spinning around the ball bearings outer race. As an example, combining the TCI Six-speeds 2.97:1 First gear with a 3.50:1 rear gear ratio is equal to a traditional TH-400 (or stock 4L80E) with a 4.19:1 rear gear. Ford considers this to be a normal condition! The 6L80 is doubtless a very successful OEM transmission, and a terrific conversion transmission in the right Jeeps and situations. This pan fits the GM 6L90, 6L90E transmission, typically found on these vehicles: . These concerns may be caused by a sticking TCC Regulator Valve (Figure 5). Ford 10R80 Transmission Problems & Solutions - Next Gen Drivetrain With this in mind, there are (3) major groups of failure management strategies that are used when certain diagnostic trouble codes are present. Most full-size trucks and SUVs with a 6L80, 6L90 use a JMBX full-size (300mm) style converter. Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. Larry Callahan Founder/Administrator of Pro-Touring.com, G-Machines.com and HostMyJunk.com To advertise on Pro-Touring.com click here Pre-Owned. This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH200-4R transmission with a 4L60 assembly. The GM transmission is the 10L80, which is available in several models as well. GM 10L80: A new kind of pump noise - Transmission Digest All I can find is that it is sealed from the rear and just needs a new tail housing but some say its got to be completely rebuilt from the inside. GM states, ". The new 10-speed combo is 4.70 x 2.85 = 13.39:1. 1. For the 4L60-E TMBX, the pistons are .115" thick, and for the 6L80, 6L90 JMBX, the pistons are significantly thicker at .150". The 6L80 features a generously deep first gear for an automatic, making for favorably powerful starts from a standing stop. Because of this, the 6L80 - despite having two or three more gears than its predecessors, is unexpectedly short in length. Continue to accelerate (may apply slightly more throttle after 7-8 upshift at 32-38 mph (51-61 km/h) until you achieve 55 mph (88 km/h) and the 8-9 and 9-10 shifts complete. The TCM-2600/2650 is used to enable the use of the GM 6l50e, 6L80E, 6l90E, 6T70E and 6T75 E transmissions behind practically any engine. Also, Im not sure if the trans will allow converter lockup at WOT. GM 10L80 Transmission: Specs & Updates - Transmission Repair Cost Guide Sonnax 3-Bolt Adapter Flange Yoke Kit - T35-GMFD-01K The More You Know About The 10R80 The Better Off You Are! Had transmission rebuilt (Pro).My problem is that when it gets around 35, 8L90E Specs, Performance, and Identification, TH400 Transmission Specs, ID, and Common Problems, Mazda 6 P0320: Meaning, Causes, & Diagnosis. _____ HBM 2016 2SS A8 NPP Pray . We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. 10R80 transmission swap? | SVTPerformance.com I believe this would allow a lower horsepower engine to perform similarly to a higher HP engine mated to a TH400. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? The new Third gear in the TCI trans is 1.57:1, which is then overdriven to create Fourth gear which is 1.57 x 0.75 = 1.18:1 which is just 18 percent away from direct drive 1:1, which becomes Fifth gear. And Sonnax doesnt even offer a forged clutch piston for the TMBX there just isnt any demand for one. $ 439.00 Select options. As transmission builders know, it can be difficult to determine a root cause when you are looking at a catastrophic failure, with rotating parts crashing into each other. 6L80E Transmission Guide & Information or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. This suggests that the idler gear and ball bearing assembly has a tight interference fit to the stator shaft support housing. Retiring Early The Transmission Industry Has Been a Dream Come True, A two-piece valve body with eight solenoids. Trying to decide if its worth upgrading for the 10L80 alone. As these units accumulate more mileage, these concerns may become more frequent. Starting with the 2017 Ford F-150, the 10R80 transmission was an option. As the 10 speeds continue to make their way into our shops, keep in mind the more you know about them, the better off youll be. We had to use a spacer from Advanced Adapters but otherwise they are the same. Which one you use is going to depend on whether or not the transmission is in or out of the vehicle. However, at light pedal or road load, single-step upshifts will occur. Its a single-disc, non-captive clutch unit that is somewhat similar to late 300mm 4L60-E converters. AM-DT-51190 threads into that port and connects to the J-45096 TransFlow. All rights reserved. In 2006, GM superceded Dexron III as the recommended fill with Dexron VI, which is backwards compatible with the earlier versions. These solenoids are directly proportional in that zero current equals zero pressure, and maximum current equals maximum pressure. $ 158.00 Select options. 80 series is rated for 80 Newton's, 90 series is rated for 90 Newton's. If you have any questions that I may be able to help you with, drop a comment or contact me. (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), (see also capacity of fluid in the converter. The General Motors 6L80-E & 6L90-E transmissions are among the most diverse and capable transmissions of their time; being used in everything from exciting muscle cars to family SUV's. In this Drivetrain 101, we'll analyze all of its most prolific problems, solutions and upgrades. The CIDAS (Casting Integrated Direct Acting Solenoid) are all normally low solenoids. The Sonnax forged covers and pistons are designed to be flat and will stay that way through the forces of converter welding, miles of driving and varying input torque from the engine. You know where this is going yup, its the converter. Thought's? This platform did not get Gen 4 (58x CKP) engines until 2008. For the most part, this transmission has been phased out by the 8L90E already, but is still in prodution. Do you thing the 10L80 can be beefed up using 10L90 parts? Tested: 2023 BMW M4 CSL Is a Track Monster. Ive heard a little about thisdid they add two more gears to the transmission? Thanks Jeff. The 8L90E is an 8 speed automatic transmission developed by General Motors and introduced for the 2015 Model year. The height of the standpipe tube attached inside the transmission to the bottom of the pan sets the oil level. Be aware of your output shaft version before proceeding with any adaptation. As you build the best transmission that you can for your customer, you should consider including an updated torque converter in the repair estimate. * 10L90E TRANSMISSION. For now, the bulk of reported cases are related to diesel vehicles. The solenoids are calibrated from the factory and are not all the same. Before answering that question, its worth noting the role that Sonnax plays in the converter rebuilding business. The exceptions to this would be the 2006-2014 Corvette, 2006 G8, 2010-2015 Camaro, and the Chevrolet SS. Ask Away! with Jeff Smith: Upgrading 6L80/6L90 Transmissions for Boost Please help>> I have a 2013 GMC yukon. A sectioned image of the 4L60-E TMBX and 6L80, 6L90 JMBX (Figure 3) shows the external profiles of the respective front covers are very similar. Wait 2 seconds. I see where Summit Racing lists a TCI transmission that was originally a 4L80E but they list it as a six-speed transmission. - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series, - Shift pointers: A 4T65-E that wants to move in Park and Neutral, Being tuned in: The value of transmission tuning, Ford harsh downshifts: 6R75 2-1, 10R60 7-6, Announcing the winners of the Top 20 Products and Tools contest, Diagnosing an unusual problem: A slow-to-respond solenoid, Video: Lubegard Limited Slip Supplement overview, Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes, How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission, Solving electronic control problems in todays automatic transmissions, Sonnax highlights 10L/10R solenoid stabilization retainer, 9T clip insert, GFX adds new pump for vintage Powerglide models, Searching for the source of an unexpected transmission fluid leak, Transmission slipping in fifth gear: An elusive cause of a common problem, 10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System. 60 mph with cruise on going down hill and truck will start down shifting. Efficiency and performance are the two main goals behind the GM 10L80 transmission. 2024 Mustang Prices Are Out, Dark Horse Is . Unlike the 4L60E and 4L80E, the 6L80 is not always referred to as with the E on the end because its been over 25 years since the last non electronic GM transmission has been in production. Before we get started, lets cover the basics. Do you know does the aftermarket have a fix? At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle starts from a complete stop. Each clutch is controlled by a corresponding shift solenoid A-F. Objectively, it is a fairly simple repair: simply remove the transmission pan, remove the valve body, unbolt the TEHCM from the valve body and install the new one. First, check for updated programming for the TCM strategy. While Sonnax makes every effort to ensure the accuracy of technical articles at time of publication, we assume no liability for inaccuracies or for information which may become outdated or obsolete over time. Transmission Report: 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild. Developing any new technology will cost an absolute ton of money, which why its not unusual for car companies to co-develop things like chassis and transmissions. Click Here to Email our Sales & Tech Staff 888-748-4655 Local: 330-965-7146 International: 001-330-652-5855 Mon-Fri 8am-5pm EST Sat-Sun: Closed Diagnosis and correction of a max line pressure condition may become, With Hondas 10-speed front wheel drive transmission (see Figure 1, above) going into its fifth year on the roads, its feasible that one may show up in your shop for service. More or less a TT V8 german car so if the new 8 or 10 speed GM transmission would work where the 6L80E came originally and the CTS V, SS Sedan, and ZL1 Brembo brakes work it could be a great platform. Thats right, you can find a variation of this Ford GM 10-speed automatic transmission in the Ford Mustang GT and the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. To give you a sense of scope, for every single forged replacement cover that Sonnax sells for the 4L60-E TMBX, we sell many, many more for the 6L80/90 JMBX. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. Finished in a durable and corrosion-resistant clear anodize. The 8L90 and 6L80 have the same size output shaft and mounting pattern. and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. Renew Subscription should check for clearance. Or did the OE stamped steel cover and piston flex and twist to the point that the clutch surface was not flat, causing a premature friction failure? 10L80 Performance Transmission Rebuilds | Circle D Transmission I use this vehicle to tow a 20 ft 10k trailer that I use to carry a 5500lb tractor. Legal/Privacy. Solution This 10L80 transmission problem could be the result of a failed oil cooler line fitting retaining bolt. A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A - Apply Time Out Of Range code. The GM 10L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is one such hybrid component that General Motors jointly developed with, wait for it, the Ford Motor Company! 4L60E (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 4L60E / 4L65E (w/ removable bellhousing) All LS1 Type, 4L80E 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), 6L80E 2006-Later (w/ removable bellhousing), 6L90E 2006-Later (w/ removable bellhousing), Splines (output shaft)Pan Bolts (number of), Transmission Fluid Capacity (see also capacity of fluid in the converter here). If we change to the latest GM 10-speed automatic it has a 4.70:1 First gear and is factory matched with a 2.85:1 rear gear. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. The source of the contamination, however, is not readily apparent. How quickly time passes by. The 6L80E uses four under drive gears and two overdrive gears. Brake very gently to a complete stop and hold the foot brake for five (5) seconds. The case is a cast aluminum alloy. What is a good torque converter today for a 4.3 high output 4 wheel drive Blazer? So you would need to begin with a 2008 or newer Express to be able to convert from a 4L80 to a 6L80 / 6L90. check the starter bendix and see if its loose and bouncing off the flywheel. The thought is that the bowl shape of the TMBX is better suited towards a more even apply, and because its thinner, the TMBX piston has the ability to flex and better conform to the front cover. Page 2 August, 2019 Bulletin No. Related Articles Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission Solving, This article applies to Chrysler RFE, RLE and TES transmissions that utilize pressure control solenoids (PCS) for line pressure control. Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. Our simulations reveal that this is worth anywhere from 0.10 to perhaps 0.15-second in a quarter-mile comparison between a stock 4L80E and a TCI Six-Speed. 4L80 to 6L80 swap - HPTuners This allows him to see what kinds of issues some of these transmissions come back to the dealer with while under warranty. This creates the situation where the engine drops less rpm from First to Second gear. 4L80E vs 6L80E - Are two extra gears worth it? - Pro-Touring.com GM 6L80E and 8L90E Drag Race Transmissions - ATI Racing The 6L80E went mostly into large vehicles with V8 motors. and can weigh up to ~230 lbs. Homepage: Garage: Wiki: Register: Community: Calendar: Today's Posts: Search: #Camaro6 . Structurally, the 8L90 is similar to the 8L45, except that it is made to handle more power and torque. This means that its designed for rear wheel drive vehicles only. Wait 2 seconds. We are High Performance Transmission Builders LT). The 6L90 has a beefier set of gears and many internal upgrades. Aisin AY6 6-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. What is most welcome about it is that it is a very durable, functional and impressive transmission assembly and appears to have a terrific prospect with GM and the aftermarket community. Find Dealer. Conveniently, the main transmission that the 6L80E is going to be confused for all have a different number of pan gasket bolts. That is RIDICULOUS, Cheryl. As the transmission approaches normal operating temperature, reverse movement is non-existent. Now controlled by computers, the E series transmission allowed for a wide range of tuning options. ! Your email address will not be published. Since these are straight cut gears, they will tend to be somewhat noisy. The check engine light might be on, and the customer complains of a slipping sensation with intermittent clunks. Thats pretty much all thats to it. This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. The factory 4L80Eand the stronger 4L85is essentially a traditional TH-400 three-speed automatic equipped with a fourth, overdrive gear. So, what's the unique problem with the 6L80, 6L90 converter found in full-size vehicles?
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